John talks to legendary prog musician Bill Bruford about his days playing with progressive royalty such as Yes, King Crimson and Genesis and much much more:
John Wenlock-Smith: Over your long and illustrious career you have worked with many of progressive rock’s major artists. Which made the biggest impression?
Bill Bruford: With Yes, at the beginning, I was bright-eyed, bushy tailed, arrogant, famously in love with my own abilities, and didn’t know that I didn’t know shit! It wasn’t until I met Jamie Muir in King Crimson in 1972 that I began with music toddler-steps, when Jamie explained to me, none too patiently, that the music didn’t exist to serve me, I existed to serve the music. Who knew?! By the time I’d been through the Crimson mill for a couple of years, I’d learned to calm down a bit, and even not play if the music didn’t call for it. With Genesis I was a sideman from whom fresh ideas or input was not required, so that was easy. In UK, guitarist Allan Holdsworth had been my suggestion. Brilliant and sensitive as he was, he occupied much of my time just trying to cheer him up and keep him in the band. So I learned from all of these situations. They all made an impression. But I don’t really do superlatives. Life’s too subtle.
JWS: You have played with many excellent bass players. Who was the best, in your view?
BB: There are many musicians of varying capacity making many choices every day. Some come into your orbit for no reason you can think of, and make a good fit, some less so. All musicians have strengths and weaknesses; some more obvious than others.
As an all rounder who can play anything, from classical to metal, Tony Levin takes some beating. He also has a magical way of making you feel he’s making it up on the spot, as much for his pleasure as yours, even though he may have played it a thousand times before. We share a sense of humour. An interviewer once asked him: “What’s the difference between playing with Bill Bruford and Steve Gadd?” Without a pause, came the answer: “One of them shows up on time”.
JWS: Alan Holdsworth was part of both the original U.K. and the Bruford line ups. How was your relationship with him? Was it a positive one?
BB: Allan was a brilliant musician in many ways, but as a person, he was mercurial, changeable and with low self-esteem. He needed a lot of managing, and it wasn’t always possible to make him happy with the group’s performance or his own performance within it, for that matter. But I’ll go to the ends of the earth for someone who could play that blinding solo on ‘In the Dead of Night’.
JWS: Sadly that version of UK only made one album, were there any other recordings that could be released any live shows ? The original UK could do with an expanded version being issued.
BB: Forgive me, but you’ll know more about this than I. My understanding is that Eddie Jobson now appears to control all rights to the original UK album and has issued as many versions of it as possible, doubtless full of outtakes and alternative versions and the like. He sent me a copy of the ‘Ultimate Collectors Edition’ but I haven’t listened to it.
JWS: You made several albums with Patrick Moraz. What recollections do you have of that period, which saw a change in your playing approach?
BB: In a duo, you have a lot of room to manoeuvre of course, but also a lot of responsibility. The drums have the ability to shape the form of an improvised piece as it’s emerging. For example, on Music for Piano and Drums, the tracks ‘Any Suggestions?’, ‘Living Space’ and ‘Hazy’ are completely improvised. On our second album, Flags, the tracks ‘Split Seconds’ and ‘A Way with Words’ are also improvised. The music may sound as if it’s written, and some of the written music may sound improvised, but that’s our business, not for you to worry about. Some people get nervous if the music just appears, without the benefit (or hindrance) of weeks spent in a rehearsal room. They accord it less value.
JWS: Your latest release (‘The Best Of Bill Bruford – The Winterfold & Summerfold Years’) revisits several eras of your career. How and why did you select the tracks for the set?
BB: Well, you’re looking for a balance of the things you do; a balance between styles, between improvisation or composition, between different eras, between electric and acoustic. The Summerfold and Winterfold labels have about 30 titles between them, so clearly I can only offer what I think is a fair representation of what I consider to be some of the better tracks. There’s music from my 70s band ‘Bruford’, from my duo with Patrick Moraz, from both electronic and acoustic editions of Earthworks over 20 years, and a return to duo music with my second improvising partner, the Dutch genius Michiel Borstlap in the noughties. It’s an excellent package for the newcomer who may have heard my name and would like to hear more.
JWS: You retired from performances for several years but I see that you are involved with a new outfit. What was it about this band especially that caused you to choose to return?
BB: It was a gradual process from complete burnout in 2009, when I couldn’t stand the sight of a drumkit, through 13 years or so in academia, to one day – very suddenly – sitting at some drums and feeling exhilarated all over: urgently and violently keen to start all over. I’d sold all my own drums, years earlier, so I had to go and find a new set and start a daily two-hour daily practice routine.
Then I formed a rehearsal band with Guildford guitarist Pete Roth. Pete had worked as my drum tech in Earthworks 20 years previously . I knew he was an accomplished guitarist, but I was astonished how far he’s come by the time we started working on the highly interactive, jazz-adjacent music and writing that we do today. One thing lead to another through 2023; a few gigs, but only in South-East England. Then a festival or two, and now the Pete Roth Trio has a dozen dates this autumn, with festivals and clubs to come through 2025. It’s a privilege to support and mentor a much younger player, and I get to pay whatever I want on the tubs.
JWS: You obviously have a good and realistic approach to curating your own legacy of recordings. Are there plans for any further reissues or releases?
BB: “No plans”, as the politicians say. I’ve downgraded myself from professional musician to amateur. Instead of being a recording artist with an international career and all the hassle that goes with that, I’d rather be simply a performer. I have no wish to generate new music under my own name. I’ve been curated to within half an inch of my life.
JWS: I know you are not a part of the latest King Crimson project, BEAT, but have had any involvement in their construction as they cover the second phase of your King Crimson activities.
BB: I’m in touch with Danny and have let it be known that I’m available should he want any advice, but he has the gig under control. Interestingly, Danny was a keen customer acquiring a ton of Bruford percussion at a huge international yard sale I held. Now you can hear some of my instruments on the current BEAT tour. I was asked to do it, but I declined. I’m no longer interested in large-room repetitive rock composed 40 years ago, when I can have small-room, close-up-and-dirty interactive music, invented today, and still see my grandchildren. I’m low-maintenance and free as a bird.
JWS: What recollections do you have from you days in Genesis?
BB: Genesis was the quintessentially family-minded band. In 1976, we were mostly childless young marrieds, and wives or girlfriends were encouraged on the road. Genesis treated touring as an extension of a trip to Harrods. All necessary requirements were laid on, the partners behaved themselves and didn’t interfere unduly.
They were exceptionally considerate to employees, from the high-status sideman such as myself or, later on, drummer Chester Thompson and guitarist Darryl Stuermer, down to the lowly third drum roadie from the left. Even girlfriends of sidemen were welcomed into the bosom of this extended family, an unheard-of generosity.
Easy, I hear you say, when you’re a loaded and successful rock band like Genesis with private planes and plenty of manpower to help. But this warmly accommodating, family-friendly attitude had existed from the beginning in that particular band – it was just built into the fabric. King Crimson was bleak, spartan, and unwelcoming to outsiders; Genesis was generous and gently accommodating. I loved playing in King Crimson because I had an emotional and intellectual connection to the music we originated. As a sideman in Genesis, I was only called upon to play some one else’s drum parts, so I was easily bored, and didn’t behave well. I’ve been apologising to them for this ever since!
JWS: Do you have any contact with you old bandmates at all?
BB: Steve Howe, Tony Banks, Tony Levin and Iain Ballamy are accessible and we see each other regularly but not often. I can pick up the phone to all my old colleagues and get a warm reception, which I think speaks to a degree of compassion for the man, not just the musician.
Pete Roth Trio tour: Dates and Tickets: https://www.peterothband.co.uk/
Bill Bruford YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@BillBruford
Bill Bruford website www.billbruford.com